Diversity & Mentorship in STEM: In Conversation with Dr. Maria Collazo-Clavell

In this post, I summarize the highlights of my conversation with Dr. Maria Collazo-Clavell, an endocrinologist and Professor of Medicine at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN. Dr. Collazo-Clavell emphasizes the need to acknowledge the value of different perspectives and talents in solving a problem, as this is what leads to innovation. She encourages us to think that diversity means “different”, and not “less than”. She also suggests we move away from the “one-mentor approach”, and instead seek guidance and support from whoever is in front of us and is willing and able to provide these to us in the moment.

Check out the full interview here: https://youtu.be/RdeHWLPtOYU

ISHA: Hi everyone, my name is Isha Kapoor. I'm a senior at Mayo High School, and today I'm joined by Dr. Collazo-Clavell, who will be answering some questions here for me. So Dr. Clavell, if you could start by please telling me about your current position at Mayo, your background, and your journey into STEM and research.

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Well, Isha, thank you for including me in this important conversation. I am a physician. I am an endocrinologist by training, so that means I did internal medicine and endocrinology. I've been on staff at the Mayo Clinic since 1997, and I am a Professor of Medicine. And currently, I hold a position of president of our voting consulting staff, which is elected by my peers, which I'm very humbled and proud of.

ISHA: That's amazing. So how do you believe that diversity in STEM contributes to innovation and scientific advancement? And could you possibly share an example of how diverse perspectives have positively influenced a project or research?

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: So diversity is key because for one, it allows us to acknowledge that disease processes affect populations differently and if we don't come in with that perspective, right, we may be mismanaging or ignoring a whole population of individuals that might suffer from the same disease. And that's actually been shown in investigation when it comes to diagnoses and sometimes treatment and efficacy of some medications. I also feel it's important that we all bring different perspectives and talents. I think probably something we need to work on to improve diversity is to recognize that talents go beyond academics. Academics are important, but different perspectives, when it comes to addressing a problem, that's really what leads to innovation - thinking of things or solutions in a different way. So I do really feel that whether it’s our intellect, our experiences, other talents, when it comes to creativity, [diversity] can really provide solutions that would otherwise not be considered if we're limited.

ISHA: Oh yeah - I completely agree with that. So moving on to the next question - in your experience, how would you describe the level of diversity and inclusivity within the STEM field, and on the tails of that, what progress have you seen in recent years and what areas do you believe still need improvement?

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Well, the representation by women in STEM has definitely increased. I mean, I graduated from medical school in 1988, and since that time over half of medical school graduates are women, which is amazing. I think we are lagging behind when it comes to representation from diverse groups. So definitely, you know, African-Americans and Hispanics are kind of lagging behind, which I'm hopeful, obviously, will continue to improve. I think there are improvements that have been made. What I would like to see a little bit more is kind of what we touched on before, which is acknowledging that we all can bring different things to the table beyond our intellectual capacity. Our experiences, our perspectives, other talents that we may have can really enhance how we work together because that's the other thing when it comes to collaboration. In today's world, rarely do people do things alone, right? And actually, often we're doing things from a distance. Here we are, right? We're working on something and we're in different areas in the same town. So, I think that does require some creativity and other talents to kind of make that dynamic work and to make it more successful. So I do feel we have to kind of expand our current belief of what we feel we need to be successful. Obviously, intellectual capacity is important, but honestly, I feel what takes things to the next level is not that. It's the other things that kind of nurture that and allow that intellectual capacity to achieve more because it’s more than two people thinking about the same problem, bringing in different perspectives.

ISHA: Yeah, for sure, I completely agree [with that] in my experience, as well. I have founded a STEM mentorship program for young girls of color within our school district. And one of the biggest hindering forces that I've noticed is that young girls in particular are really afraid to pursue STEM, simply because they believe they don't have the intellectual capacity to make it far in the field. And really, one thing that the program is really trying to ingrain is the fact that STEM [engagement] comes from acknowledging a problem. And really, that's all it takes. And devising a solution often kind of flows naturally, but the first step is to just get started, and I think that can be the most intimidating step, as well.

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: I agree.

ISHA: So I think that's definitely a step that I think we should take in the future - really just encouraging people, especially young women, to get involved in the STEM field, as opposed to dismissing it simply because it seems difficult on the surface.

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: I agree, you know. I'm really excited about what you just shared [and] that [this] is something that's being voiced. I agree that sometimes it’s just the logistics. I think one question is like, “What do you feel are obstacles?” and I think it's often people feeling like they don't have what it takes because they might be deficient in something. “Well, I'm not so great in math, so that means forget it. I can't do any of it." When, in truth, it takes so much more than that - for one, acknowledging a problem or identifying something [is] kind of a key thing, and being interested or curious about it is a key thing. Because if people have a lot of internal capacity, but they can't come up with questions or they're just not interested in it, guess what, they're not going to use that capacity to solve a problem. But people may have enough to identify and solve a problem. So, I'm so happy to hear that, because I agree with you that it does tend to steer people away from pursuing the STEM field.

ISHA: For sure. So the next question is, how do you believe that mentorship and allyship play a role in fostering a more inclusive and equitable environment for aspiring scientists from diverse backgrounds?

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Yeah, you know, mentorship is kind of a big topic, and I will tell you that, more and more, I'm kind of trying to step away from just that “one mentor” kind of mentality because there aren't enough mentors out there. And sometimes, what I feel it's doing is that if people don't identify themselves as mentors, they might dismiss opportunities that they have that present themselves to help people around them be successful. So, I'm trying to kind of get away from having this “title” of being a mentor, and really, open everybody's idea to say “Okay, here. I have this person next to me. Yes, I'm not their mentor, and they're not my mentee. But we're in a situation where I can provide guidance, advice, support to that person at that moment.” You know, and I feel like in my personal career, I've not had one mentor, but I can remember many circumstances where it was a critical time when somebody took a moment of their time to either identify something in me, to encourage something in me, to sometimes even relieve some anxiety about something - and I feel made a big difference. And I feel like for people like myself, that's particularly important, because there might be not as many people [that mentored me directly]. So I would tell you that is really important, [and] I hope that over time, people feel like “You know what, I don't have to be a mentor to identify this opportunity, this individual that I have in front of me that's interested, and provide them some guidance and support," because I feel like sometimes, there are so many opportunities that are missed that could really make a critical impact in that individual's situation and opportunities. So, you know, I'm talking about my own bias, because I haven't had one mentor. But, I can also speak to the fact that if we're all attentive from both parts - someone who can help, or if a young person can see someone who they feel is really interested, to pursue some guidance with that person. I really want to encourage that.

ISHA: Yeah, for sure. I think it really also comes down to the fact that we need to really just acknowledge that we have so much to learn from each other. I feel like the mentor-student relationship is one that's mutually beneficial, and considering that I've been in both roles - I've mentored a cohort of students for science fair and I've also served as a mentee when I was preparing my own research. Filling both roles has really taught me that the mentor's role is to provide guidance. But it's also to acknowledge the perspective of the mentee and understand that we both have something to contribute to the discussion, the conversation. I think that's what really what moves research along over time - that we have this communication that allows us to not only bounce ideas off of each other, but also just to acknowledge the different perspectives in the room and understand that everyone brings something completely unique to the table.

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Yeah. I feel like it's perspectives, you know. Sometimes that's the beauty of working with young people - that you have this information that you've known, but then somebody might come up and just totally have you look at something in a different way, or apply it in a different way. So I feel that there is value in that and sometimes, some things might be seen as obstacles, whether it's generational or racial or cultural, when in fact, I think [they] should be viewed as opportunities. But, you know when there are differences, sometimes the challenge there is getting beyond our own biases or how we communicate But I think that's something that we all need to do and need to get comfortable [with], to really be successful, to really have diversity just be something that is there. We don't need to talk about it, it's there, and that's what we have to be working towards.

ISHA: I fully echo that statement. So, moving on to the next question - what actions do you think that academic institutions, research organizations, and companies can take to attract and retain a more diverse talent pool within the field of STEM?

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Yeah. I feel like there is a responsibility of academic institutions to really identify talent as early as possible. Being more involved in the community, I think, becomes really important because when there are obstacles to higher education, then we're limiting - we’re not tapping all the talent that's there. So I do feel that there's a responsibility to identify talent in high school, or even earlier. Not even necessarily talent. I think it’s just interest, you know, is there interest? Just exposing people to STEM and in different ways. And identifying what we touched on before - the potential obstacles. So [if someone says] “I'm not so great at math”, [you] say, bring what you have, don't think of the deficits, bring what you have. I think something that happens, which I would tell you, probably in my own life, is that for people from underrepresented or disadvantaged backgrounds, it's hard to reflect and accept what you don't have. If you feel like, okay, you're not good at math to accept “Okay, I need help with this. Who can help me?” Or, you know, financial things - “Okay, I can't afford a tutor. Who can help me with this?” So I do acknowledge that when people come from disadvantaged groups, if they have the interest [in STEM], they might have to go through some hurdles that others might not face. First is acknowledging some things that might be uncomfortable - it might be uncomfortable to acknowledge some of the obstacles, but it's something that if people are supported, then they can overcome those obstacles and open that door to be able to get ahead. And I feel that doing that becomes really important, because then you start overcoming those self-imposed obstacles, that I think that you touched on earlier enough, that are very common. We self impose these obstacles, and I think if I were to help young people [with] that, [I would tell them] to reflect about it. You know, there's no shame, just accept it. [Allow yourself] to say “Okay, this is what I need, and who can help me?” So I would always tell people, “Be cognizant of what you want, what you need, and don't be afraid to ask. Even if you’re told no, you're not further behind than before. More often than not, people would say yes, because if you see an interested, motivated person, people will go out of the way to help."

ISHA: Right, I completely agree - yeah, for sure. And then, my final question for today is, in your role or organization, what strategies are currently being implemented to promote diversity and equity within the STEM workforce? And could you possibly share any successful initiatives or programs?

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Yeah, so obviously there are a lot of initiatives to try to increase representation. So, [lot of efforts] in the recruiting [and] in the training of individuals into STEM. I would say that probably what we need to continue to work on is in having a more fertile environment for people, for women and individuals from diverse backgrounds. And by that, I mean, again, we're touching a very common theme, which is diversity means different. Sometimes we think of diversity as “less than”, and I feel like that's something that we have to change in our environment in science. Again, academics is important, and people work hard for that. But, you know, I had a professor in college who used to say, “When I look back at some of my students,” he said “the B students were the ones that came up with the really innovative ideas, because the 100 percent students were just making sure that they had every question right.” So, you know, what he's saying is that it takes a little bit of everything. And I feel that we still have to work on that fertile environment to really identify those skills, those talents, that can really move forward innovation. It could be so many different [things] - collaborative spirit, it could be just organizational skills. It could just be so many different things that are important. And I feel like we're still working on that, acknowledging those talents, and helping those people advance, as well.

ISHA: Thank you so much for making time for this interview today. It’s been amazing having you! You've had some really insightful responses, so I thank you for that.

DR. COLLAZO CLAVELL: Thank you, Isha. Best of luck to you.